Cut off for World’s registration is only around the corner, so it’s time to go over final decklist selection. Normally by this time in the process, we’ve all agreed on the respective best picks and are in the very last stages of tuning. Unfortunately this hasn’t quite panned out to be the case this year, due to a combination of limited testing time and a corp meta that refuses to be easily pinned down we find ourselves relatively split on final list selection.

Corp

We’ll start with the toughest section first, because to be honest that’s the only reason you’re here. If you’ve read through Mike’s post from the start of November you will already be aware that we weren’t feeling confident in any of the corp lists we had under active test at the time. Little to nothing has changed on this front, however CtM has moved to the forefront and is the top choice for both MikeP and ChrisFerg. Whiteblade’s timely release of his Boom! CtM list means the final call has yet to be made on the exact list so I provide both of the feasible options below.

Whiteblade Regolith Boom CtM
Malia CtM

We’ll look to pop an addendum on here once Mike/Chris have tested and finalised their choices here.

As for me, due to the fact that I am only able to play during the Friday swiss section I have opted to play a slightly more tweaked version of the Neurospike Azmari list from our last post. Although not completely wacky, this is not the most reliable/sensible decision and in testing has proven at best a 50/50 vs a runner with a decent plan. I’m just hoping it will guide me along to 9 wins so I can secure a foil Rebirth.

Spike Azmari

Runner

You’d at least hope that by the time we got to runner things would be unified, but unfortunately again here we are divided. Although worth noting here first that this is not a Bigg Maxx debate (thankfully, we’ve had enough of those…) and simply a choice between an almost sensibly sized Maxx list and a soon to be sensibly sized Steve list.

The Maxx list you’ve already seen as Mike covered this in our last post so I won’t bother going back over it again here. I’ve gone back and forth between adding a single Cit Sanc and a single Mad Dash on the list over the last week and eventually have come down on the Cit Sanc for a little bit of utility in the CtM and Gaga match ups. Much to my shame this leaves me playing a 47 card list but I’ll accept my scolding in a future episode of the podcast.

As for Steve again nothing super revolutionary here, as the list stands currently it’s also at 47 cards, but the cuts to 45 are already in the works. Most likely an Inside Job and a Falsified, but discussions have also mentioned a Laundry and the Polop here as other feasible options for removal.

(Almost) Sensible Steve

And so there we are, definitely not our finest testing cycle and while I don’t think any of us would be happy to say these are definitively the best lists, we’d all agree they’re solid enough to be considered. We’ll see you all in a few weeks for a post Worlds round up.

In which we discuss continentals, inters, the meta going into worlds and when we hope the banlist is going to be announced – this was totally recorded before NISEI announced when that would actually happen, promise.

https://anchor.fm/the-process-anr/episodes/Episode-5-Continental-Drift-e17oo64

It’s been just over a month since our last episode, and we’re sitting right on the cusp of three weeks of continental tournaments, kicking off with APAC this weekend. Our original plan was to record another episode at this point, briefly wrapping up our experiences with Fite Nite and discussing our thoughts on the competitive scene as we move into Continentals. Unfortunately due to a mixture of busy schedules, the opportunity to get out and enjoy some UK summer weather and some low enthusiasm with the current meta, recording this episode never looked to be on the cards. Hopefully this little article will go someway to making up for this shocking lack of effort on our part.

Fite Nite

Despite our rather lacklustre performance, I think all four of us would agree that we thoroughly enjoyed the opportunity to play and chat together as a team. Getting to connect and talk about Netrunner is something I think we all miss the most about the lack of IRL tournaments at moment. So huge thank you to Vale for organising, NWE and Snarebears for being such great opponents (extra hat tip to Jonas for giving us all a good schooling), and everyone who participated in streaming and supporting this effort. I look forward to this format returning in the future and watching some more teams battle it out.

Continentals

At the time of writing, worldtimebuddy is telling me APAC is due to kick off in about 8 hours. While I won’t be waking in the wee small hours to watch, I will definitely be very curious as to the meta breakdown for this first tournament of the series.

It’s pretty apparent that the meta is still corp favoured, and very heavily stacked towards our purple overlords HB. With all in fast-advance Sportsmetal, rushy skunk void PD both pulling runner in a variety of different directions, and hard hitting Asa as a stalking horse that presents another problem alongside those. What few recent tournament results we have to go on, featured both these corp ID’s in the top 4 so the question for the last month has been how exactly do you combat them both?

To be honest, we don’t know.

The default answer (to most netrunner questions) seems to be 419, and the NYC SC results would go some distance to confirm that hunch – you have early interaction in the form of boomerang, turtle and very solid long term sustain econ from rezekis and bravados which give you some play against PD, and you can slot a mix of tech of your choice to try and make things better. The sports matchup isn’t ideal though, while doof does slow them down a little and turtle cuts through their ice, unless you make some very specific and awkward tech decisions you have essentially no interaction with their path to victory and are just playing vacheron roulette off r&d in the first few turns, same as it ever was with game changer spombo.

On the other hand Antarctic Continentals were incredibly green, with three different Shaper decks making it into the top 4 (Smoke, Apoc Lat, Mayfly Wu), they all give you slightly different approaches to PD while potentially allowing you to play clot or imp and some simulchips to try and get an edge on Sportsmetal.

Overall a pretty mixed bag. Just to further muddy the waters, we’re going to throw our own hat into the runner ring. Initially driven by a real want to not have to play 419 at a competitive event again, and also to actually build a deck for a change rather than discuss the same 4-5 tech slots in crim we’ve ended up on the following [ Mike Note: some of us were relatively happy to just suck it up, play 419 and then complain a lot about sports on the day but John insisted that we should do something more interesting and, for want of any need to actually really build 419, we agreed to give it a shot ]

Maxx

1 MKUltra
3 Sure Gamble
3 Simulchip
3 Liberated Account
1 Misdirection
1 Clot
2 Black Orchestra
3 Overclock
1 Rebirth
2 Paperclip
1 Stargate
2 Apocalypse
3 Fermenter
3 I’ve Had Worse
3 Labor Rights
3 Botulus
3 Cookbook
1 Imp
3 Daily Casts
3 Hippo

If you’ve bumped into myself, Mike or Chris in random jnet lobbies recently, you’ve likely seen us playing some variation of this list. I’ll spend some time discussing some of the decisions that went into this list, but also want to preface this whole section with a fairly large disclaimer.

This list is likely still behind 419 across the board. While it does appear to have a significantly better sports matchup, the PD matchup is only okay, you have to work very hard and tread some very tight lines and that’s before you start to factor in the Crisiums that are popping up in PD now which make your main game plan significantly worse.

At this point we don’t know for sure if any of us will play the list in competition, but we’ve spent a few weeks working on it and in the spirit of project, we present it here warts and all.

Originally designed with the sole objective of crushing Sports the list featured double stargate, double imp, triple wanton, docklands pass and spent the apoc influence on Pennyshaver. This rather ridiculous amount of central pressure, combined with triple chip and reasonable access to clot did probably unsurprisingly work rather well against Sports. Unfortunately beating anything else was a tall order, particularly any corp that was packing HHN. Working back the wantons fell away for more econ in the form of Overclocks, Docklands Pass went out for Misdirection and we shifted around some of the other slots to find room for Hippos. The deck started to feel more solid, and while it did drop a few percentage points against Sports was now not a complete dog to the rest of the field. Ctm and Boom ASA felt approachable, and outside of net damage Jinteki decks a host of other random corp lists proved to be no real problem. Unfortunately none of us could really beat PD, and it was becoming apparent that the influence spend on shavers was likely not correct. Around here we drifted away to other things (Smoke, 419, Wu) until Mike tried swapping in a couple of apocs for the shaver influence and made some other minor tweaks to the econ.

Despite only being able to fit in two copies, the apocs really present you with another avenue of attack that was missing before particularly against PD. After initial early tussles over the remote with Botulus, Overclock, Hippo and the bin breakers. PD often finds a 3rd piece of ice or manages to stick a void/skunk that you just can’t get in to trash without falling in to a huge hole. Pivoting across to an apoc gameplan at this point can sometimes turn the tables in your favour, especially if you can catch PD with an agenda in the remote. Initial testing in this match up proved encouraging, but after a small period of adjustment for the PD player this gap narrowed. Subsequent addition of Crisium or extra Border Controls into the PD list then almost eliminated this gain altogether.

Some recent experimentation has been made swapping out the Hippos for Wildcats but at time of writing this hasn’t really featured in more than a couple of test games, so I can’t really comment either way regarding that change.

Overall, even if it turns out to not be the answer to all our hopes and prayers, it’s an extremely fun deck to play and we’ve had some super interesting conversations during games and afterwards looking at replays to try and figure out the exact optimal lines in different situations. You get elements of the full Hivemind Maxx deck but have a slightly leaner set up and more normal anarch econ which leaves you with quite a few options and opportunities to outplay both the corp and yourself.

What we will actually play at Euros is still up in the air, it could be this, hivemind maxx, 419, some shapoc with clot or something else more off the wall. As always if there are any significant breakthroughs or changes, we’ll put out an update but for now our attention turns to APAC and the hope that someone else has found a runner deck to really shake up the meta

Chris, Mike and John return for a whimsically titled third episode in which we talk about our combined experiences at the Chatteris and Stevenage online store championships.

Episode 3 – Truzt the Procezz

After dissecting our deck selection and the respective tournament meta’s, we move onto our reactions to the latest NISEI banlist and the potential effect the loss of VLC will have on ASA, PD and the rest of the corp meta. Finally we take a step through some of the decklists in the meta that have piqued our interest, and look to how we will be spending our time preparing for the next online store championship in early May.

As always you can find the full results from both of the store championships on ABR at the links below.

https://alwaysberunning.net/tournaments/2904/2020-chatteris-store-championship

https://alwaysberunning.net/tournaments/2905/2020-stevenage-store-championship

Lastly, the link below will take you to the next online store championship a few of us will be competing in.

https://alwaysberunning.net/tournaments/2920/ntscapenavigators-online-store-championship

We’re within touching distance of the Chatteris SC now and testing has been bouncing along merrily. Below are presented the two corp lists and a runner list that have constituted the vast majority of our effort since recording the episode on Saturday evening. As expected there are no great surprises here, particularly if you’ve been keeping abreast of the frequent Neurospike chatter in #uk. Of course given the recent influx of new cards and rotation, the meta remains an unpredictable and wild environment. We’re very much taking our best guesses and leaning heavily into our known comfort zones with most of these lists.

Neurospike BTL

3 Hostile Takeover
1 Digital Rights Management
2 Afshar
2 Tithonium
3 Neurospike
1 Archer
3 City Works Project
3 Project Atlas
3 Dedication Ceremony
3 Hortum
3 Rashida Jaheem
3 Mausolus
1 Archived Memories
3 Border Control
1 Vanilla
3 Spin Doctor
3 Hedge Fund
3 Malapert Data Vault

Please direct all grumblings to MikeP for this one. Originally in Jemison this was relatively swiftly moved into BTL solely to take advantage of the 40 card decksize, once it became apparent Jemison rarely fired. For the completely uninitiated here the combo you’re looking to achieve is an un-stealable City Works Project with either two Neurospike in hand, or a single copy and either Malapert in the scoring remote or an Archived Memories in hand. From here it’s a case of score and then Neurospike away until the unfortunate runner keels over with a scrambled brain. The list itself is designed solely to support delivery of this combo in the fastest way possible with Spin Doctor, Rashida and DRM providing some useful draw or tutor options. Dedication Ceremony to setup the CWP and Malapert to tutor for Neurospike. Your ice suite revolves around the threat of an early Tithonium rez off the back of a T1 or T2 Hostile score, just to provide enough breathing room to form the combo.

Needless to say there is definite issues with certain runner tech cards including IHW, Citadel Sanctuary (allowing runner steal of the CWP) and Caldera. This is not counting some ability to potentially disrupt the combo with Class Act drawing the runner up beyond kill range and buying another turn of breathing room. It should be noted that despite some great initial enthusiasm we are cooling on this list now, largely due to problems dealing with the 419 list in this article that slots a copy of Citadel Sanctuary.

Gateway ASA

2 Manegarm Skunkworks
3 Project Vitruvius
2 Slot Machine
3 Gatekeeper
3 Marilyn Campaign
1 Eli 1.0
3 Violet Level Clearance
1 Luminal Transubstantiation
3 Rashida Jaheem
2 Fairchild 3.0
3 Fully Operational
1 Cyberdex Virus Suite
2 Global Food Initiative
3 Hagen
2 Anoetic Void
2 Jeeves Model Bioroids
3 Drafter
3 Spin Doctor
3 Cyberdex Sandbox
1 Biotic Labor
3 Hedge Fund

Kudos to Pat (rotomappliance) and Percomis for supplying the initial lists to which we’ve made some small changes. Although this is in ASA, the decklist itself is a distant cry from the Tablet ASA lists of last year. Carrying a larger ice suite and with the loss of Cybernetics Court the list leans far harder into the rush plan, with the new Void and Skunkworks upgrades providing a solid line for scoring the final few points. Of particular note is the move away from Lakshmi and MCAAP, the former a suffering from the less symmetrical agenda suite now that Luminal makes an appearance. Along with the reduced number of opportunities to obtain counters and the standard 5 hand size, defending agendas in this way proved generally unworkable. MCAAP gets pushed out simply because you can’t afford to spend the time clicking up and defending, when you really should be jamming agendas.

Overall this leaves a deck with a narrower gameplan that loses some of the flexibility from last years Tablet ASA, made up for by proving far more approachable to pilot initially. There is still some debate to be had, particularly over the ice suite, which has shown some fluctuation during testing oscillating between 14 and 15 pieces. Ansel 1.0 and Border Control also made the initial list but were sacrificed to bring in the important 3rd Spin Doctor with the remaining influence going on Slot Machines. At the current time of writing this appears to be the group favourite to play for the Chatteris store champ on Saturday.

Gateway 419

2 Rezeki
2 Miss Bones
3 Sure Gamble
2 Boomerang
3 Deuces Wild
1 Amina
1 Mutual Favor
3 Aumakua
2 The Class Act
3 Diversion of Funds
1 Political Operative
2 Falsified Credentials
3 Bravado
2 Pennyshaver
1 Paperclip
2 Earthrise Hotel
2 The Turning Wheel
3 Dirty Laundry
1 Citadel Sanctuary
1 Bukhgalter
2 Diesel
3 Daily Casts

Little in the way of surprises here, with a Criminal list that is largely unchanged from last year. Originally adapted from Mining Accident 419, the accidents were removed to free up influence for two copies of Diesel. Other additions are the excellent Penny Shaver over Paragon and Mutual Favor for the rotated Special Order. There is little else to debate here other than the selection of tech slots which currently resides at 2 x Bones, 1 x Political Operative and 1 x Citadel Sanctuary. With the likelyhood that Void is going to be seeing a lot of play, some case could be made for finding a 2nd Polop although cuts here are tough to find. The inclusion of Citadel Sanctuary alongside the improved draw from Diesel helped greatly towards making the BTL Neurospike match up workable during testing, and appears to be enough to give you a decent match up here.

Things are all pretty quiet at the moment, so just wanted to check in with a relatively small update to keep track of where we see things moving over the next couple of months.

Further SM Meta Testing

It feels like everyone, tournament organisers included, is awaiting the release of System Update and System Gateway with bated breath so there are, understandably, not a ton of standard events to test for at the moment. As such we’re putting our current testing process on ice a bit until we can see a bit of the shape of the new meta. Part of that is that Geist seems to be solidly the best runner and there is a fair argument that Asa is the best corp, both of which take a big hit in rotation (Geist is leaving entirely and Asa probably undergoes a significant change with the loss of Cybernetics Court). As such we’re saving some energy for that big shakeup and not spending a ton of time on Netrunner for a few weeks.

On the plus side myself and MikeP did get to dip our toes into streaming an evening of testing with Geist, which has now been archived onto YouTube. You can find the video here. We’ll be intending to resurrect these streams in earnest once the season livens up again, and have some initial plans on how we can get everyone more directly involved in the testing process.

We also spent a little more time after this stream was recording continuing to play around with the Geist list we had been using. I’ve placed that list below for reference purposes mainly, the main change being the switch back to Sports Hoppers after finding e3 + Hostage slots simply too durdly. Pinsel kindly dropped in to chat and sold us on the value of them even in the slower matchups.

Geist

2 Gbahali
2 Miss Bones
3 Sure Gamble
3 Grappling Hook
3 Boomerang
2 Prognostic Q-Loop
1 Amina
2 Simulchip
3 Diversion of Funds
3 Bravado
2 Sports Hopper
1 Paperclip
1 Stargate
6 Spy Camera
1 The Back
3 Masterwork (v37)
1 Bukhgalter
3 Tech Trader
3 Street Peddler

Rotation & New Cards

Hopefully we’re not too far away from the start of spoilers season and we can dig into the new cards at full force. The intention at this stage is to produce at least one podcast episode discussing the new cards, rotation and our first guesses at how the meta will develop. This may change depending on how slow/fast the drip feed of spoilers is and how much free time we can negotiate to get together and record. We’ll likely put out another update nearer the time with some more details.

Tournament Schedule

Although currently there’s still nothing on ABR at the moment, we’re already aware of at least two UK based SC’s that are likely to be arriving in the first couple of weeks of April. We’ll be aiming to make an appearance in at least one of these if not both. Hopefully as the new cards start to drop, competitive juices will start flowing again and we’ll see some more previously postponed SC’s showing up during the Spring.

UPDATE 20/02:

Both of the UK based storechamps we mentioned above have confirmed dates for the first weeks in April and will both be operating with the newly released cards. They’re linked below on ABR for reference, don’t miss out!

https://alwaysberunning.net/tournaments/2904/2020-chatteris-store-championship

https://alwaysberunning.net/tournaments/2905/2020-stevenage-store-championship

To follow on from some comments in our most recent episode, and to keep everyone up to date with how our testing has shifted in focus since the conclusion of the FB3 store champ we’ve compiled a list of decklists with potential we’re currently exploring. It’s quite possible that some of these will turn out to be flawed in some way and discarded. Others will be minor tweaks on previously proven lists we want to revisit in the current meta.

If this post proves a useful accompaniment to the podcast release we’ll look to continue with these curated lists on vaguely regular basis.

Maw Hoshiko

2 Rezeki
2 MKUltra
3 Sure Gamble
1 Boomerang
3 Simulchip
1 Medium
3 Liberated Account
1 Indexing
2 Datasucker
1 Hunting Grounds
1 DreamNet
3 Parasite
2 Black Orchestra
1 Rebirth
2 Paperclip
3 I’ve Had Worse
2 Labor Rights
2 Paladin Poemu
2 Stimhack
3 Zer0
2 Maw
3 Daily Casts

Firstly a shoutout to Osclate on this one, both myself and MikeP ran into this list in jnet casual and found it particularly intriguing. After mercilessly reverse engineering 90% of the list from jnet game logs we have since been playing around with it as a group and tweaked it into this current form you see above – adding the simulchips and changing the tech package a little. A pleasantly aggressive list for a runner that is still packing 2 x Rezeki. The rig sports triple Parasite and Simulchip providing a significant ice destruction threat. The economy is also well rounded and can carry into a late game situation pretty well.

Without Maw MU can be a bit problematic early, as you want to install both Rezeki and Datasucker as soon as you see them and can occasionally end up being forced to shuffle breakers in and out of the bin. Ideally in those situations you deal with ice with Parasite to keep space free then get a Maw down as soon as possible to have room for everything properly. There is a fair chance that it’s correct to swap Maw for Keiko with its significantly lower install cost for 2 mu and more consistent ability, and you’d have to really think about whether you wanted to register Maw at an event and go up against a string of ice heavy asset light decks, but it is a much more fun card and absolutely crushes some matchups (CtM, RP, Asa).

Results in testing so far have been generally positive although the swing to extreme 20 ice Jinja decks may prove a little overwhelming for this rig. General internal consensus is that we’re moving away from further iterations of this list in favour of the following runner…

Geist

2 Miss Bones
3 Sure Gamble
2 Grappling Hook
3 Boomerang
2 Prognostic Q-Loop
1 Amina
2 Simulchip
3 Diversion of Funds
3 Bravado
3 Sports Hopper
1 Paperclip
1 Stargate
6 Spy Camera
1 The Back
3 Masterwork (v37)
1 Bukhgalter
2 Stimhack
3 Tech Trader
3 Street Peddler

Essentially the Geist from World’s 2020 published by Pinsel. Clot is gone with so little FA threat around currently and a 2nd Simulchip is in. Double Miss Bones remains in place as it’s applicable in so many match-ups right now (RP, Jinja, Palana, CtM). Current slots open for debate are the Stimhacks and Sports Hoppers, potentially to allow room for a 3rd hook.

Not a lot else to say here that hasn’t already been covered previously. Internal testing is in the early stages but expect some further tweaks to be made after we’ve completed running it through a proper gauntlet.

Corp

Corp is proving a much tougher prospect at the moment, we’ve tried a few things (an Asa deck with SanSans, a couple of GameNet lists and Titan) which all have their own appeals and good matchups but none of them seem to be much more resilient than the pre-existing lists we talked about in episode 0 and 1 when facing down Hoshiko, Hayley and Geist. Rotage’s Jinja Sports deck – ideally with a couple of IPOs fitted in – remains the most likely new prospect and has been added to our testing gauntlet along with Palana and RP but nothing seems likely to crack the meta open.

As mentioned in episode 1 of the podcast, we’re still planning on giving straight up NWE Slot Machine Asa a run out but cannot at this point say that we’ve given it enough of a test to really comment on how we feel about it in the Salvaged Memories meta.

We’re back with intro music and a full discussion of our experiences at the recent FB3 store championship. Due to popular demand we’ve moved across to anchor.fm so you’ll now be able to easily find us in all your favourite music and podcast apps.

Episode 1 – Fanboy 3 SC debrief

You can find the full results from the store championship at https://alwaysberunning.net/tournaments/2881/salvaged-memories-sc-for-fb3

Expect another follow up post from us shortly, in which we’ll cover a few of the potential decklists we discuss as potential candidates for testing later in the episode.

Straight off the back of this evening’s final testing session here are the final lists myself, MikeP and chrisferg are intending to play in the FB3 tournament tomorrow. Sign up at the link below to join us:

https://alwaysberunning.net/tournaments/2881/salvaged-memories-sc-for-fb3

Hayley

Only two changes from the list we linked in the podcast notes. Both of the laundries are gone after much consideration, the 3rd memchip is back in to make life a bit easier when wanting to grab the Datasucker early. The other laundry was initially swapped out for Compile but the card was found to be generally dead. A last minute change has been made to Harmony AR Therapy, although none of us are convinced on this slot and it’s completely untested.

Expect further discussion on this change in next weeks episode.

Palana

Some very minor changes on the Palana deck, isolated solely to tweaks of the ice suite. We’re down to one Thimblerig in order to make room for the second Excalibur, as it’s one of your best methods of scoring out. A single IP Block has been added at the expense of a Slot Machine to add one extra piece of cheap ETR ice.

We’ll be summing up our post tournament experiences in next weeks episode, definitely not to be missed!

We’re happy to present our first piece of audio content, a discussion with John, Chris and Mike about the returning cards in Salvaged Memories, the impact they will have and what decks we think are good at the beginning of this meta.

https://theprocessanr.podbean.com/e/episode-0-salvaged-memories/

As mentioned in the episode, we’re happy to get any feedback about what you’d like to hear from this project in the future so let us know if you have any questions or ideas.

The Hayley list we discussed and all said we would likely play at an event right now is drawn from Saan’s list here https://netrunnerdb.com/en/decklist/63059/big-bag-of-everything-1st-at-hacking-christmas . So far the only change that we’ve made has been cutting the third Akamatsu Mem Chip as Saan suggested and it seems pretty good in that state. A few tweaks have been discussed, particularly looking at the two copies of Dirty Laundry and could come up later in the week, but currently we’re playing it with those 45 cards

The Palana, that again we all decided we would probably play at an event next weekend, is drawn from CritHitD20’s list here https://netrunnerdb.com/en/decklist/62999/salvaged-palana . The only difference is in the ice, in testing Surveyor and IP block have both felt like liabilities at times when they come up early against aggressive decks or when the remote starts to get dismantled by the all-in ice destruction decks that are starting to emerge. Those have been switched for a Fairchild 3 and 3 Slot Machines, but that change doesn’t really fundamentally change how the deck works beyond that preference. Again, there is a possibility that this gets tweaked over the next week as we get into more seriously testing it, especially in a matchup like Engolo Leela where the virus hate cards are all potentially blank, but for now this is where it stands.

The RP deck is an amalgam of various lists that have been around over the last couple of years, with the new cards added back in to shore it up and currently looks like this.

There’s no list provided here for Geist, our #2 runner, because likely nothing has changed in that deck since worlds. The correct assortment of tech slots is probably different now than it was a few months ago based on the changing corp meta but it’s not 100% clear without actual testing what that looks like to us.